Reno 911 and the perceptions of others
…[Doug] mentioned that he had been watching Reno 911 while on the treadmill, that raised an eyebrow for me because I often struggle with what is “okay” for me as a more mature follower of Christ to do…I often struggle with what types of activities to involve myself with, or what kinds of shows to watch not on the basis of whether they are within God’s moral standards but based upon how others may view them….
Nick
Hey Nick,
Great question! (would I write that even if I thought it wasn’t? You be the judge.)
This is a difficult tension that must be solved for the mature: what does it mean to care about the perceptions of others? What is too much, what is too little?
There is, of course, no Scripture that directly relates to what are asking (and you referenced this in the part of your email that I cut.). Reno 911 isn’t in the Bible. You clearly framed this question to be about perception and not personal purity, so that’s the way I’m taking it.
BTW, One thing that’s particularly sad among Christians is when they answer this tension and then force and judge it upon others.
Additionally, there is no wisdom that also answers this question conclusively either. (For example, you don’t need a Bible verse to tell you not to jump off a three story building.)
Therefore, we are talking about a matter of the conscience, the kind of thing found in Romans 14 and 15 (and Philippians 3:15-16) . This freedom is a great fear to all legalists near and far. Control is wrested from their incapable hands and placed within the heart of the individual.
“BUT I KNOW how God will judge them! It feels so right to me!”
“Shut up.”
It is easy for the shallow to answer quickly and avoid this silent struggle of the soul. Consider this: Should you make your HEDGES too close, you run the risk of Peter who drew back from the Gentiles. In doing so he limited his influence and earned Paul’s rebuke. The opposite danger is there, I’m sure there’s a NT example of this, but none come to mind. (remember I’m not talking about purity, but perception)
So we are talking about a disputable matter. What keeps us from some form of relativism that I’m not smart enough to name particularly? Several Scriptures form the boundaries of the sandbox we get to play in.
I find Romans 14 and 15 to be a tremendous help in these areas. We are accountable to God, not to other people. Our accountability to other people comes in two lesser forms, the accountability that helps our spirituality, and the accountability that is required for the trust that a leader needs to lead.
Now the overseer must be above reproach (1 Ti. 3:2)
A leader in the church must be trustworthy and creditable. Without trust there is no biblical leadership. It’s hard to follow someone when you think they are sinning…you may be wrong, but you rarely think you are. Perception and assumption trump grace every time. When I do something I think is fine, but you think is evil, I lose.
BTW I used to think Rom 14:16 was about convincing others that your way was the truth, but that never fit the context. What is clear to me now is that we refrain so the weak doesn’t have cause to speak evil of what I consider to be good.
Who’s reproach are we avoiding? 1 Th 5:22 offers little help in discovering the balance: Avoid every kind of evil.
There is the unity of the Spirit, and unity of the faith. Look these up, they aren’t the same. All believers share the first, and in Heaven we’ll have the second. We are all a bundle of strengths and weaknesses that form a unique DNA for how we think and live and understand God. Because we have different weaknesses, what causes one person to stumble is easily conquered by another. Hearing cusswords in a movie doesn’t make me think or say more cusswords. (I could explain why, but that would make this long post even longer)
We must work to maintain peace, and not destroy one another because of our knowledge. The strong must take up limits so the weak do not loose trust and faith in the strong. This is why Paul became like a fool to some. While Paul was all things to all people, he wasn’t doing this to all of the people all of the time. That’s not possible.
The perceptions of others is a tricky thing. Paul said he wasn’t pleasing people, but God. Yet clearly he cared enough about some fools to become like them. Jesus was known as a friend of sinners, and we see this as a badge. But what about the people who said this about Jesus? Jesus wasn’t above reproach in their eyes, he didn’t avoid every kind of evil. The spoke evil of what he considered good.
I think it’s best to consider the perceptions and assumptions of the people you’re trying to reach, and conform to the world around you (assuming you maintain purity). Smoking in my context isn’t good. Smoking in many other places around the world isn’t an issue.
However, we are in the world, not of the world. We do not sin to reach the sinners. (although we often act as if this is true by saying that addicts are the best at ministering to addicts. Don’t narrow the comfort of God described in 2Cor…. That’s another day). As ambassadors of Christ, we are living in a strange land, but still hold to the customs of Heaven.
Walk slowly, meaning be deliberate with your decisions. Maintain your purity (which this answer isn’t about) and be sensitive to the perceptions of others. You’ll never be able to please everyone, but are you avoiding evil in the eyes of those you’re sent to?
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I am not a man of many fancy words. But I have to say that I do agree with Matt in his conclusion. Still, I do also believe that the Bible is very clear in the limits we should impose in the freedom that God has gave us as a believers.
First, as Matt cited Romans 14 and 15. The whole responsibility lies on the mature Christian or the strong one. Not on the one with the “Weak Mind” as Matt will put it. So it is our responsibility to make sure, we are not being a stumble rock for others. As a personal example, I minister to the Hispanic community where drinking alcohol is in pandemic proportions. Drinking in from of youth or adults could make somebody go back to the old addiction or could be use for a teen as an excuse to start something that in his/her alcoholic family history could be devastating. So, I avoid drinking.
Second, in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 Paul says that ” I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some” just “for the sake of the gospel…”. Sometimes, we tend to forget that as servants/ministers of God we ought to do everything in light of who God has given us the burden to reach. So as the Wise Matt said, make sure to scan the people you minister to and see what is a stumble to them, sacrifice that to God and become a slave of love. Still, be careful not to become legalistic on dumb things.
Blessings,
Héctor, Iglesia La Viña
I would agree with Matt and Heck. I play volleyball with a bunch of non-believers and they are waiting for me to slip up. If I let a cuss word out or drank a beer with them, they would immediately discredit my faith. They wouldn’t understand that we live under grace. My witness to these guys would be ruined. It has taken a few years for me to build up a consistent reputation with them. It would only take one action to destroy that. I care more about their destination than expressing my freedom under grace.
I know we are under grace, but are you saying everything is lawful to us? It just seems to me (and to the apostle Paul) that there are some things that we should lay down when we become a Christian.
Rom 6:1-2
Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
Paul said that all things are Lawful to him, but then he said this. Could someone with more Biblical knowledge than me please (probably everyone) please explain.
Jp
great comments! Jeremy, in my second to last paragraph I reference the passage you quote…it definitely doesn’t make sens to sin in order to reach others… it never makes sense to sin (that is a sacriface of personal purity).
Marc i get your sentiment 100%. Ballanced with that, we also need to let unbelievers know we’re not perfect…now, to “sin on purpose” to let them know this would be really stupid…
about this being a disputable matter (concerned about the perceptions of others), I had a friend in college, and his family didn’t go into video stores because he didn’t want others to see him go into a store and think he may be getting a XXX movie. Too far? Too strict? It was what his conscience dictated. However, he also believed that drums shouldn’t be used in a worship service and there may be a correlation. However, to his own master a person stands.
Matt can you please comment on the purity side of things.
Personal purity is much easier to discern because you only have to look within, rather than measure the multitudes around you.
With prayer and personal examination, you know whey you are leaving the course. There’s a bazillion scriptures we could look at, we’ll just take one: when you no longer are producing the fruit of the spirit in your life (or perhaps more accurately, when the Spirit isn’t producing the fruit) it’s time to see where impurity has crept into our life.
Hebrews tells us to fix our eyes on Jesus, and if something is keeping us from doing that, we need to be ruthless (and enter heaven with one eye rather than hell with two.) We need to leave behind everything that entangles. Early in my faith I listened to SLAYER, that music was great. The words dominated my thinking and I knew more SLAYER words than Scripture. I cut that completely from my life.
Paul tells us twice, “everything is permissible” but that everything isn’t permissible. Some things may be OK, but are they really good? I think there are only two things worth doing in the world: something that’s good for you and something that’s good for someone else. If it doesn’t help you or another grow closer to God, then don’t do it.
Reno 911 isn’t a stumbling block for my purity (although I’ve only seen 8 episodes or so). It doesn’t take away from my faith. In turn, I enjoy it a ton, and really appreciate how clever much of it is. It’s good, I marvel at how the ideas are presented and thrown together. I appreciate the risk someone takes in writing and acting, in creating. I like to laugh, but I also like to think about why something is funny. I like to deconstruct it and guess at how a particular bit was put together. Since I like to analyze everything I see or hear, I have a lot of fun with just about anything I’m doing.
I can think of lots of reasons why it might ruin someone’s purity. You probably could too.
I saw the reno 911 movie, and there was a scene with a topless lady. I leaned over to the mish (my wife) and said I didn’t need to see that. I think there was a sex scene in it, but I think it was more of a spoof… I can’t remember. Here is another thing about me personally, images don’t stick with me, ideas do. A half naked lady right next to a rotting beached whale is funny… The juxtaposition of desire and repulsion is funny. (I still didn’t need to see the naked lady). I have some friends, particularly artists, that are visual in the way that images stick with them forever.
BTW: this may be why I don’t like to read a lot of serious books, I come across ideas that are so lame that I keep thinking about them and get angry…I’ve never considered this before…I’ll need to think on this…
Anyhow, there’s much to say about purity, this was just the next step in the conversation.
Matt
Wow, this IS much better than morethandodgeball.com….
Seriously, this is something I struggled with for some time myself. I appreciate your insights. Thanks…
Another aspect of this is helping Christians understand Grace. I think its odd that we respond with ‘raising an eyebrow’ when we hear Doug watches Reno 911 or so and so drinks beer.
Causing a person to stumble may be the most overused misunderstood passage of scripture. We need to learn to think the best of each other when we hear anything that might be either a matter of conscience or sin. Before I get overly worried about what might be sin for someone else I need to check myself first and then if it really seems to be an issue than ask that person about it and seek to understand without judging first…
I think we owe it to each other to assume the best and then ask questions with a pure motive. Personally I believe God is bigger than the beer I drink and that in his sovereignty my freedom cannot cause anyone to fall. Not to flaunt in my freedom and all things in balance but ultimately I don’t lose sleep over what any legalist thinks…how the lost respond to us is a greater priority. And most of them are more offended by me not having a beer or drinking something lame like budlight…
I can understand his response of raising an eyebrow. My response was the same. For me, it boils down to a heart issue. I beleive sin offends God. I beleive there is plenty of scripture to back that up. Therefore sin should offend us and I hope we never get to a point in our lives where our heart becomes hard and we feel comfortable around it. It’s not that I feel Reno 911 is sin. It’s just I don’t see how we glorify God or grow closer to Him by watching it.
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
-1 Corinthians 6:19-20
thanks for your feedback Michal.
the key thing you said was , “I don’t see how we glorify God.”
I tried explaining how it was/can be glorifying in either my post or one of my comments… joy glorifies God. (If you don’t beleive this, then you ought never laungh, or tell a joke, or go to a party, or do anythng to “have fun”). Critical thinking glorifies God. Appreciation glorifies God. Seeing risk glorifies God. What if believers took the same risks that writers/actors and other creatives do? Listening to what others have to say glorifies God. Learning glorifies God. Like I said (I think), I have a mind that never stops analizing, and thinking, and considering, and wondering, and examining, and evaluating… so just about evertyhing I see is a test of what’s true and what’s false, wise and foolish. Anyhow, I’m not disagreeing with what you said, I’m responding to you saying, “I don’t see….”
and if you don’t see it like I do, that’s ok. we’re all trying to glorify God, right?
I think, as christians, we should spend less time worrying about what others are watching and more about what we are doing in our own lives. Why do we raise an eyebrow? We all watch TV and there is very little on TV that actually glorifies God. Does that make it ok to watch it? Of course not.
All I am saying is that if you watch TV at all, no matter what channel, what network, what investigative report, you are watching something that does not glorify God. I have seen shows on TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network) that offend me and, in my opinion, glorify people on the show rather than God.
I thought it was funny when I heard that Doug watched Reno 911. Let’s remember to not be judgmental (it seems to me that raising your eyebrow is on the verge of being judgmental). I have enough sin in my own life. I don’t have time to sit around and try to figure out if Doug is sinning by watching a tv show. Get the log out of your own eye before you try to take the toothpick out of Doug’s…you will be able to see much better without the log. Please don’t get the impression I am being judgmental about someone being judgmental, just making a statement.
Here’s the sad truth. Your students, your student leadership, your adult leaders…and maybe even your pastor…are watching tv shows that do not glorify God (and most likely…so are you). I think there is great value in watching shows like Reno 911. How are you going to relate to your students and your leaders if you don’t have any idea what they are watching, listening to or reading? That is what Jesus’ life and death was all about. God knew the importance of relating to His Children. Had Jesus chosen not to walk with sinners the cross would have been insignificant. Keep God on the throne of your heart but be willing to experience some things that are not comfortable so you can relate. I think that a student will be more likely to listen if you can say that you have seen that show. You can take that opportunity to say “I did not like it because…”. You can use that experience to teach your students biblical principles like purity. You can teach them the importance of spiritual discernment. But if you have never seen the show and tell a student that they are sinning by watching it, they will be less receptive to your message. I would dare say that Jesus was not completely comfortable with everything he experienced during his short time on earth…but he understood. That makes the cross meaningful to me. If you exhibit to your students that same understanding, that will create a relationship with them that is meaningful. After all, teenagers crave to be understood, don’t they?
I’m a little late in getting in on this discussion, so I don’t know if anyone even still reads these comments. My struggle with the media culture we live in goes back to Romans 12:1-2, where Paul challenges us to worship God in everything we do. I, like Matt, am a VERY analytical person, and even movies like Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire can engage me in worshiping God. However, I think we need to really evaluate how much filth we will allow into our minds, which are supposed to be renewed to become like Christ’s. Do I need to watch a movie filled with coarse joking so I can better relate to teens? Should we be laughing at sin that nailed Christ to the Cross? I ran across a comment by AW Tozer in his book, “Whatever Happened to Worship?” I think it’s pretty helpful in this matter:
“I have found that God will not dwell in spiteful and polluted thoughts. He will not dwell in lustful and covetous thoughts. He will not dwell in proud and selfish thoughts. God tells us to make a sanctuary of our thoughts in which He can dwell. He treasures our pure and loving thoughts, our meek and charitable thoughts. These are the thoughts like His own.”
Media is something that each person has to decide for himself, but we, as leaders in the church, need to make sure that we are not allowing a foothold for the devil. I’m not saying where that line is, and I think that each person needs to spend time in prayer to determine it for himself.